🎤 Behavioral Interview with Chris Rider

Interview with Chris Rider, Senior Behavioural Scientist in Ethics, Risk & Compliance at Novartis.

Behavioral Interview with Chris Rider

1. Tell us about Chris and his experience.

Before I joined the world of behavioral science, I had a bit of a winding path.

I started out as a philosophy and ethics undergrad, always eager to explore the big questions about our existence. I wrote my dissertation on what makes us human!

But after graduation, I found myself at a bit of a crossroads. I knew there wasn't much of a market for philosophers, and I wasn't sure what my next move should be. That's when I stumbled upon an opportunity at KPMG, where I trained to be an accountant.

At KPMG, I worked in audit and risk consulting, traveling the world to conduct reviews in all sorts of industries. I visited sugar factories, car manufacturing plants, and even the World of Concrete trade show in Las Vegas.

Despite enjoying my time at KPMG, I couldn't shake the feeling that there was something more out there for me. And that's when I discovered the world of behavioral science. It felt like the perfect combination of my love for big questions, curiosity to understand big businesses, and my experience in consulting.

So, I took the leap and pursued a MSc in behavioral science at Bath Uni. And so, so pleased I did!

2. How did your interest in Behavioral Science begin?

My interest was a bit like a slow meandering stream which suddenly became a waterfall. Years ago I read a book called The Chimp Paradox by Dr Steve Peters. I love sport and he’d been a sports psychologist to a lot of high profile athletes in the UK, from Team GB athletics, Liverpool FC, to Ronnie O’Sullivan. His book opened my eyes to the idea of systems thinking and how it influences our behaviour.

Then, put off by the long road to become an actual psychologist, I began researching other ways psychology is applied in the world and stumbled upon the world of behavioural science. Particularly some of the work by the Behavioural Insights Team which I found inspiring. So I started reaching out on LinkedIn to people working in the field to try and understand what they do, and if people actually have “jobs” in behavioural science, and I was happily shocked when it turned out they do!

I’d like to shout out a thank you to Jez Groom from Cowry for offering me my first taste of applied behavioural science, and after that my mind was made up. I started applying to MSc programs and handed in my notice to the world of audit! And then towards the end of my masters, another big THANK YOU. This time to Antoine Ferrere for taking a chance on me and offering me my big break into behavioural science!

3. What is psychological safety?

Have you ever been in a meeting when you’re not clear what someone’s talking about but you don’t ask to clarify in case you look dumb, or you have an “out there” idea but you’re worried you’ll look silly, or perhaps you noticed someone behaving in a way that didn’t feel right but you didn’t feel comfortable to call it out in case it comes back on you somehow? These are all things that can happen when teams aren’t psychologically safe.

The formal academic definition coined by Professor Amy Edmondson is it’s “a belief that one will not be punished or humiliated for speaking up with ideas, questions, concerns, or mistakes, and that the team is safe for interpersonal risk-taking”.

Psychological Safety is about taking your foot off the break. It’s about as a team saying what you think, it’s about being candid. And that can be tough.

4. Can you explain the experiment you carried out?

In our experiment, we set out to explore ways to enhance psychological safety within teams. We conducted a six-week intervention focused on improving one-to-one meetings between managers and their team members.

We randomly assigned around 700 teams, representing almost 10,000 people across three groups.Two intervention groups: one where managers were guided to prioritize individual needs during these meetings, empowering team members to drive the conversation towards what mattered to them. The second group received guidance on using one-to-one meetings to identify and remove blockers that hindered their team member's performance. The sets of guidance were concise, easy to follow, and delivered by way of a simple email, with some follow-up reminders across the six weeks. A control group was also included, where managers were simply vaguely informed of a study on “meeting habits”, but nothing else.

To measure the impact, we analyzed data from employee surveys and workplace analytics, comparing the period before and after the intervention. The results were remarkable! The group that focused on individual needs saw a significant boost in team psychological safety, while the group addressing blockers also showed improvement, though to a lesser extent.

This experiment highlights the importance of targeted interventions in fostering a safer and more productive team environment, ultimately leading to happier and more engaged employees.

Through our experiment, we discovered novel, evidence-based strategies for improving psychological safety, a crucial element for cultivating an engaging and strong speak up culture.

5. What are the takeaways for managers who want to improve teams´ psychological safety?

First, make sure you’re having regular 1:1s with each of your team members. These are important opportunities to connect.

Next, tailor your approach to 1:1s based on your team members' current levels of psychological safety.

• For team members with low psychological safety, use 1:1s to discuss their individual needs. Ask your team members what they would like to chat about and let them guide the conversation.

• For teams with high psychological safety, focus 1:1s on removing blockers. Help team members prioritize and overcome any obstacles hindering their best work.

A really valuable outcome from our experiment is that these interventions did not only improve psychological safety. We also found a positive impact in whether team members’ perceive their managers as role models, as well as improved feelings of personal growth and career development.

Remember, improving psychological safety doesn't always require elaborate training or workshops. Simple (and cost-effective) interventions with minimal disruption can make a real difference!

6. What would be your advice for students or specialists who are beginning to discover Behavioral Science? How can they learn more about the discipline?

1. Reach out and message people, particularly on LinkedIn. As we know from psychology, people love to chat about themselves. You'll be amazed how often people are open and willing to chat just because you messaged them saying 'their job looks cool'. It's a great way to quickly get a sense of the different types of behavioral science roles out there and what may interest you.

2. Listen to podcasts. Personally, this works really well for me. I particularly like to pair this with going on a run. There are so many great ones out there. For those starting to get into behavioral science, Katie Milkman's Choiceology pod is a personal fave. For any notable, new behavioral science books that come out, I'm a big fan of simply finding interviews with the author as a shortcut to getting the gist of their book and whether I want to read it. Beyond that, there are too many podcasts to listen to, so I've lately outsourced my pod selections to whatever Habit Weekly recommends.

3. Build your network. Specifically for those trying to get into behavioral science roles, as a lot of behavioral science teams can be quite small and new. Many roles (as across all industries in general) may not be formally advertised, or at least not advertised widely. By building a wide network early, it's a great way to hear about opportunities that may interest you and give you a leg up in finding your way into the wonderful world of behavioral science!

Thank you so much Chris for answering the questions! I hope readers can learn from your experience and suggestions 😄

Silvia Cottone

Behavioral Science Consultant & Worldwide Speaker

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This interview is part of the "Behavioral Interviews" series. It is fully written and edited by the guest. You can read more interviews with behavioral science experts here.